Episode 7: Anxiety, overwhelm and rage - feeling and dealing with big emotions
“I feel weird” – it’s not right or wrong, it’s how you feel.
Anxiety, anger, rage, depression – these are some of the big emotions that are exacerbated by fluctuating hormones during our 40’ s and 50’s. Today’s guest Nic Topp is a respected mental health naturopath, specialising in mental health and mindset.
We chat about mindset, emotions, confidence and how to navigate this as we deal with our own changing hormones, the mental and emotional loads we carry for others – all while there is still a heaviness in the world.
It’s essential we find the space to take care of ourselves and Nic gives us steps to actually find the pieces of ourselves again – the things that light us up and bring us joy. These are the things that calm our nervous systems and benefit our mental health. It’s OK for us to embrace our wisdom, knowledge and experience and stop people pleasing. The people will be OK!
You don’t want to miss:
How to stop, take a breath to get back into your body
Why you need to stop carrying the load for everyone else
How to let go of perfectionism by stopping moving the goalposts you create for yourself
You don’t need to ask permission to put yourself first and it’s OK acknowledge that you have needs too
We are at the perfect age to explore what brings us joy and lights us up.
Links and resources:
For more about Nic and what she does, check out her website.
Learn more about Nic’s popular and successful Calm AF program, which takes you from an anxious over thinker to calm AF.
Download my free ebook – Stress Relief for Happier Hormones.
Join our free Hormone Hub Facebook Community.
Make sure you hit SUBSCRIBE so you don’t miss a thing!
And, if you enjoyed this episode, please leave me a rating and a review? Thanks!
Kylie: Welcome back everyone to the hormone hub. Today I’m so excited to have one of my really good praccie friends here, Nic Topp. So Nic [00:01:00] comes, she’s been bunkered down in Victoria for the last couple of years. So it’s nice to, to have you surface. So welcome, Nic. I’m really excited to have you here, you and I have talked a lot about the state of the world, the state of, you know, people’s mental health.
But I think today, what we wanna talk about is when we sort of get to a certain age and it just happens sort of naturally is, mindset, confidence,
Nic: All the fun stuff.
Kylie: The package.
So welcome Nic. And would you like to say hello and just tell us a bit about you .
Nic: Yeah. Awesome. Thanks so much for having me. I love talking about all this sort of stuff I could talk. Well, we both know we could talk for hours and hours and days and months.
Let’s be really honest about that just for a minute, but look, I, I have a, a real affiliation with, you know, how we change and how we grow. And obviously there’s so much that we can do from a mental health perspective, even just from a supplement [00:02:00] perspective, just like, you know, you’ve, you’ve obviously looked at too and, and foods and all the things, but what I really love discussing is our mindset and how we can change the way that we literally live so quickly and simply, we just gotta commit to it. So, look down here. Obviously we’ve had lots of mental health stuff surface across the world. We’ve had lots of mental health stuff surface, people who haven’t had these experiences before. It’s super interesting just to see how it’s unfolding, but it’s all a learning curve and it’s all growth.
Kylie: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, we could go down so many rabbit holes, but oh yeah. Sort of like steer it towards, you know, women in their forties, fifties, we’ve got these hormonal changes and you know, what I see from women and what I hear all the time is for the first time ever they’re experiencing anxiety and overwhelm.
But part of that is world circumstances 100%, but also part of it is that physiological. You know, it is a, a change [00:03:00] in hormones.
Nic: It totally is. And, and something that we’ve got to remember too, is how that fluctuates and what that’s going to do within the body to make us a little bit more susceptible.
And that susceptibility is what can often have people like me flapping about going, Hey, wait. What just happened. I, I don’t, where am I? You know, so the changes in hormones will literally take you from, and this is why sometimes we can, it’s, it’s kind of like Melbourne weather, right? Like we need to dress for all seasons for just the one day.
And, and sometimes we get to that stage in our life too, where, where we realize that something is a little bit off and we haven’t really, we can’t really put our finger on it necessarily, and nine times outta 10 it’s because of hormonal fluctuation. So we have to notice what goes on there with stress. We have to notice what happens when we are in an overwhelming situation and that the body actually, you know, pulls straight into a proper stress response, like an actual, proper stress response, where you’re, you know, you’re secreting all of those hormones and neurotransmitters are off the charts and we’re like, wait, [00:04:00] what? That, what just happened there? I don’t understand.
Kylie: Yeah. And I often sort of explain it to women too, that, you know, we’re sort of at that stage of life where we’ve still got sort of teenage or young children, teen children, adult children who still need us.
We’ve got, you know, parents who are getting older, we’ve got sort of careers that are still challenging. And you know, what blows me away with women is this extraordinary capacity just to push through, be a pro at carrying the balls. They do what they need to do. Until we hit a wall.
Nic: Absolutely. I, I like to call that the, the pulled in all directions situation, where you literally cannot seem to, to catch your own breath.
And that is literally my first tip of the day is to catch your own breath because when we have everything coming in from every angle, it is like, everybody wants a piece of you, and they’re all dire. You know, you’ve got a teenager who’s in, you know, crisis. You’ve got parents, as you said, who you’re caring [00:05:00] for and the career and the house and the partner and the, all the things, it gets to a point where you feel like you’re putting out spot fires. Like quite literally. I, I often liken it to that, have you ever seen, like in a circus where they spin the plates and they’re like, whoa. Oh, that one’s getting wobbly. Oh, shoot over there and spin that one a little bit.
Oh, oh. Oh, there is that one. I better spin that. Until it all just completely crashes and burns and then that’s us. And we can’t figure out why we’ve got rage or why we’re randomly sad. It’s not random. None of this is actually random. It’s actually this beautiful transitional phase in our lives where we go from serving everyone else to going, wait a minute, wait a minute.
What do I need? And, and sometimes we don’t notice that until, so I’ve got, I’ve got this kind of, a bit of a theory where we get a little tap on the shoulder and if you don’t pay attention, you get a little wallup over the back of the head. You’re still not listening. The rug comes out from underneath you and that’s where everything kind of crashes and burns.
And it really depends on where you’re at and [00:06:00] what you’re able to do to move yourself through that. But quite frankly, once you start to realize that this is all just kind of a bit of a playing field and we all get to, to learn where our new boundaries are and, and what, who we are as a person is all over again.
We’ve had these decades of learning this. Now it’s time to put it all into practice. Yeah. Uh, and, and actually teach our kids and our partners and our friends and our family how to treat us again, rather than just being that, that glue that holds everything together, you know? It’s hard.
Kylie: Absolutely. We actually had a really good chat, a lady in, you know, our Facebook community had sort of said, you know, she was just having a vent on, you know, her husband has started calling her sticky Vicky, like her name’s Vicky, but, you know, and just making all these jokes about her getting older, because she’s now, you know, wearing glasses, she’s embraced her greys.
Nic: Oh, have you seen my head lately?
Kylie: Nic has, as I have, you [00:07:00] know, and it’s, you know, we’re not 20 years old anymore. We’re not 30 years old anymore.
Nic: I wouldn’t wanna be. No, let’s be really honest for just a minute. How wobbly were those teen, those teen years?
How wobbly were those twenties? When we’re trying to figure out where the F we were gonna go and what we were gonna do? All of it felt wobbly and now we are coming into wisdom and we need to embrace the absolute S H I T outta that wisdom.
Kylie: Absolutely. And the experience as well, you know?
Nic: Oh, absolutely. And to actually, you know, realize that that is an integral part of who we are and, and what we need to be doing moving forward, because we kind of, I don’t know about you, but, but I certainly noticed that I would numb out to all of the things. If it got too much, I just kind of went, must push through. Must keep going. I got a bit robotic and I kinda lost connection with who I was, who I thought I was in the world. You know, there’s this whole aspect of this is who I thought I [00:08:00] was. And this is how the world perceives me to be. And if you can see me, I’m holding my hands up, like a scale, it’s kind of this whole thing of like, you know, who am I, but who does the world perceive me to be? And on, on one hand, you know, you might be superwoman to one person and you feel as though you’ve gotta keep playing that role, but really there’s a really much more softer, gentler, more vulnerable side too, that, you know, you don’t necessarily allow the world to see.
So we have this kind of come up against it all of the time, over and over again. And it’s really time to step into just who we are rather than trying to please every other person and hold everything together, you know?
Kylie: Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s a thing it’s, you know, that sort of stage of life because our kids are a little bit more independent. We’ve got a little bit more space to actually then explore things for ourselves as well.
Nic: And what’s really interesting. What I hear a lot of is that people that aren’t comfortable just sitting in the quiet. And that’s a really big indication that that’s exactly what needs to happen a little bit more [00:09:00] frequently and just touch base with what that actually means for you.
Yeah. Um, you know, I’ve had clients who have gotten quite upset around the fact that they don’t even know what they like to do. You know, you ask, you know, what are your hobbies? What do you enjoy? And they’re just completely silent. And I’m like, wow. What does that feel like to realize that there’s not something that you do for yourself?
It doesn’t have to be anything amazing. Mine was just having a hot cup of tea under a tree, like in the shade, just chilling out and just listening and taking some time out and. That was all I could muster in the beginning and that’s okay. Yeah. It just, it’s a stepping stone, you know?
And I think, you know, women have poured so much into everybody else for the last, however long. Yeah. Basically since our children were born. We pour so much into everybody else, but yeah, we’ve never kind of gone, oh actually I’m still a person and, and I still have things. There’s things out there that light me up and bring me joy, I’ve just forgotten what they are.
Nic: Yeah, absolutely. So grab the [00:10:00] reins and let’s just see where it leads, you know?
I just started doing things that made me feel weird. And, and what I mean by that is if I felt a bit triggered by something, I was like, oh, there’s something in that for me. Yeah. Um, what else can I explore? And it doesn’t matter what it is, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got friends who are off learning to horse ride at the rip old age of 42.
Um, know I’ve got friends who have started doing dance. I’ve got like. You know, just get out there and have a crack at it. I don’t care if my belly wobbles a bit more these days. I just, I don’t have time for that anymore. Let’s be really, really honest. It’s, it’s a really interesting thing as we age and, and getting back to sticky Vicky, you know, besides the fact that that kind of brings out my inner rage.
Cause I kind of go the how dare he! What? He’s not aging?!
Kylie: Yeah, I know. Right.
Nic: That’s okay for him to, but not her? We were brought up, you know, hating our bodies in our generation. Um, whereas this next generation is so much better at just being, and I’m like take a [00:11:00] leaf outta their book for goodness sake.
Kylie: I know.
I know you see, we’re living on the sunshine coast. We’ve got all the girls, you know, and that’s ok, a lot of them are quite athletic, but a lot of them aren’t so much.
Nic: Yeah. But that’s our judgment.
Kylie: No worries. And I I’m the same. I’m just like, oh my God. Kudos to all of you girls.
Nic: Totally. But we notice it. Right. So our judgment is still there. So there’s something in it for us to explore about. Why does that make me even feel a bit weird?
Kylie: Yeah. Well, that’s it, you know, we shouldn’t even be noticing, but it’s sort of no, no, we shouldn’t focus on weight. But we go, Oh my God. She’s got so much confidence.
Nic: Yes. And, and some of that is jealousy, you know, like in, in our household, there is a catch cry.
I feel weird. I feel weird covers all of the, the things. So I should give you a little bit of background in this, in that both of my kids have suffered with anxiety. I have too, my husband as well. We’re all sort of in that, in that, um, let’s say mixed bag. And I have to just quickly note, even though there’s [00:12:00] anxiety, there’s also a depressive swing that happens with that as well.
And it’s important to notice that that happens too, because that overwhelm, that anxiousness, that stress response then is also really depleting. Uh, and that’s when we don’t tend to rest, we push through and then wonder why there’s this inner rage so the catch cry in our home being, I feel weird means, okay, something’s a little off, I’m not sure what it is exactly just yet because our emotional intelligence. I didn’t have words for it a few years ago, it’s taken me a lifetime to get some words for this stuff, you know? Yeah. And, and I definitely learnt through my kids too, but I feel weird is okay, I’ve just gotta check in with myself right now.
And, and at my age I still do this frequently. I’m like, okay. What is it that I’m feeling right now? Something’s, something’s funny. And I really still don’t know what it is. Where am I feeling it? Okay. It’s in my chest. I’m, I’m feeling it in my chest. I’m not feeling it down my arm or in my jaw.
It’s not a heart attack. It’s just [00:13:00] something feels a little bit, you know, congested or stuck or tight or not quite sure. Okay. So. What’s going on here and more often than not, it’s a simple action for me of just going, okay. I’m gonna take a breath. I’m gonna reset my Vagus Nerve by putting one hand on my heart and one hand on my belly and I’m going to see where my breath is.
Oh, okay. All of my breath is in my chest. Now we’ve all seen like a bird hit a window. And it comes off and it’s like breathing really shallow. It’s complete fight or flight. We need to reset that. And we’re gonna reset that right now. So I’ll get you to do this too. We’re gonna both do it right now.
Whoever’s listening. It doesn’t matter if you’re that’s right. If you’re driving, please, don’t take your hands off the wheel. However, um, do just take a moment to notice where your breath is. So I just want you to see which hand moves. Like a couple of little breaths, just normal breaths. We’re not gonna do anything fancy.
Just see where it is. Now. I’m gonna say about 90% of you have your chest moving the most, cause that’s where your breath is. Yeah. So what we’re gonna do is a little practice of bringing it back down into the belly and we wanna kind of really bring [00:14:00] that diaphragm right down to open everything up. You’ll notice that it still feels a little bit restrictive when you’re starting to breathe into the belly, but with practice it feels better.
In a way you’re gonna kind of feel like you can’t take in a full breath, because you’re so used to chest breathing perhaps, but we are just gonna have a little bit of a practice and we’re gonna breathe a little bit more into the belly. So I want you to feel when you can feel your belly rise and fall, make sure that you’ve got your hand on the right part of your belly, which is around your navel.
You know, not too high, cause we don’t want you, you know, right up with your liver and checking in with your liver. Although that probably needs some love too, but that’s okay. For today we’re just gonna check in where that breath is and we’re gonna bring it down into your belly. Take a nice, bigger breath than what you had before and then actually have a little breath out. Now, as you’re breathing out, you’ll notice that when you’re doing belly breathing, you can breathe out much further than what you could breathe in no doubt. And when we’re chest breathing, we’re in that fight or flight. But bringing back into that valley, we’re actually resetting the Vagus nerve and we are resetting that stress response. We’re already making [00:15:00] moves to help ourselves to feel a little bit more calm. So I feel weird can turn into, I’m just gonna take a breath, which turns into, okay, how can I identify what’s going on right now?
Does that all make sense?
Kylie: Instantly, like I can feel my whole nervous system relaxing.
Nic: Yeah. Well, it’s less up and around your head and it’s back in your body. We just wanna get you back in your body. Not, not leaking energy out into every single part where you’re pushed and pulled, because that feels frenetic.
And that’s overwhelm. So we are just closing down those tabs and breathing.
Kylie: Yeah, no, that’s great. And I think so many of us are disconnected from what’s going on in our body.
Nic: Yeah, totally. Well, look, we actually really are more than what you would imagine. And, and as someone like I do body work as well, you would think that I’d have an excellent sort of connection there, but it’s definitely grown,I was gonna say with age and, and actually I’m gonna own that. I’m gonna say with age that has grown because I’ve gotten to know what that means for me, [00:16:00] because it’s different for everyone. No one knows you better than you. So don’t ever think that somebody else knows you better. Honestly, yes, they’ll have knowledge in certain areas and that’s really great support, but nobody actually knows you better than you. So it’s actually really important for you to notice what’s going on there for yourself. Because it’ll be different for everyone else.
Kylie: Yeah. That’s great advice. And I think that’s, that’s it, you know, we’re all different. We’re not a size fits all. We don’t, you know, no two women I speak with have got the same things going on. They can be going through a similar experience, but yeah, actually how it manifests for them in their bodies is completely different. Every single one.
Nic: It really, really is. And, and as you start to discover what happens within your body for you, you can start to use your gut a little bit.
And I often joke about, you know, if you’ve got anxiety, your gut is literally saying abort mission every single time, right? But that’s not the part of your gut that I want you to tune into. I want you to feel [00:17:00] whether or not something is a hell yes or a hell no. Yeah. If it’s not a hell yes, it’s definitely a hello no.
And when you are feeling a little bit vulnerable, a bit wobbly, a little bit anxious, a little bit overwhelmed. We actually have to start scaling back because I’ll, I’ll be really honest with you. We are much better practitioners, mothers, partners, you know, friends when we are not taking on too much, because if we spread ourselves too thin, we only get a very superficial and surface part of ourselves to give to anybody else.
Yes. And that’s not how I wanna roll. That is absolutely stepping forward in my older age. It’s like, I’m putting the foot down and I want deeper connection. I want more understanding. And I’d rather just be doing less than trying to service more on a superficial level. So going for that hell yes, absolutely do it.
But if it’s not a hell yes, just for the minute, we’re in nourish and renew and restructure and, you know, get some foundational health back again, just for a short period of time. This is a recovery [00:18:00] stage. So pull back on the things that you do not necessarily need to do saying no is hard. But it’s actually really important right now.
Kylie: Yeah, absolutely. And one thing I use with my clients is no is a complete sentence.
Nic: Oh yeah. Hundred percent.
Kylie: You don’t have to justify you. No, no saying you don’t just, just no.
Nic: Sorry. I can’t do that. It’s not for me. That’s my favorite saying, I’m sorry. It’s just not for me.
Kylie: I’m blunter than that, I just say no.
Nic: That’s okay.
That’s okay. But I’m a lifelong people pleaser. So anxiety is in my blood. So, you know, I, I’m just a little bit more aware and a little bit more in tune to that aspect and yeah. And rather than having to make up a whole story about why I can’t, I also know that I can’t just. It is a complete sentence. No is absolutely a complete sentence.
And yet, you know, I, I can elaborate a little bit without having to push outside of my boundaries basically.
Kylie: Yeah. And I think, you know, for the majority of women listening, you know, [00:19:00] because we are sort of born people pleasers, and particularly when you are used to taking on more things. Oh, can you just do the canteen at soccer?
Nic: Oh, I know. How is it?
Kylie: Can you just pick up auntie Betsy? Cause she’s got a doctor’s appointment. So after you, you know, run around, do all the things for everyone, oh can you just, you know…
Do you know what that is too though? It’s because we’ve always been seen to be wildly capable. Yes. Yeah. A hundred percent.
Nic: But it’s too much. Wildly capable for every other bugger, but not ourselves. Now is that time. This is like the women wisdom time. This is like where we just go. Uh uh.
Kylie: Yeah, I know. I know. Right? Absolutely. And I think this, you know, circles back to that whole, you know, stepping into our wisdom, stepping into our experience, stepping into our knowledge of, you know, and it’s time to kind of, you know, we’ve projected that onto everybody around us, but it’s time to kind of like take ownership of [00:20:00] that back and kind of go, okay, what do, what do I need? What’s gonna light me up? What’s gonna bring me joy? What can I let go of?
Nic: Because you’re a much better person to be around if you’ve had a little joy, let’s be really honest.
Kylie: Every time, you know, getting together with that girlfriend for that, you know, big belly laugh, best medicine ever.
Nic: Yeah, absolutely. And, and some of the things you could laugh about just make it all so much funnier. But, you know, coming, coming back around to that whole, you know, being wildly capable to be able to do all of the things doesn’t mean you have to do all of the things.
You know, scaling back that little bit just for a period of time, if things feel a little bit wobbly, it’s, it’s acknowledging they feel wobbly and that can, that might be a really huge commitment for you just to step back a little bit. And any little step is gonna be a step in the right direction because you’re not too sure actually where you are, there’s a bit of restlessness, that nervous energy.
And, you know, there’s lots of different things that we can do there, but, that simple fact of like, no, okay, this [00:21:00] is, this is where I need to be for me. And it’s teaching everybody else around you, how to treat you.
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Kylie: So just on that, you know, cause something that does come up quite a lot is, you know, women sort of get to this age, they’ve got [00:22:00] all of a sudden this, you know, anxiety, which might be new, overwhelm and they kind of feel a bit lost within themselves so that you, like we talked about, they’ve lost their hobbies, the things that bring them joy.
Where would you suggest that people start?
Nic: Yeah, that’s a really good question. And it’s gonna be really varied depending on the person, but if you are not actually even sure what you like doing anymore, then start with what you used to do when you were a child. Were you creative? You know, did you like to draw, did you like to color in?
Did you like to just, just start, just start anywhere because it feels really numb and not right to begin with, but kind, it’s kind of like you let go after a period of time or the floodgates open and you kind of go actually, this is really cool. I, I kind of like that, but, but maybe I’d like to go over here and do a class in that.
Like I went, went out and did some jewelry making the other day, just a local woman. And I totally was. I took my mom, it was a, a Christmas present. We did a thing together. We made rings and, and I was like, this is really cool. I’m not to say, [00:23:00] it’s not to say,go out and get a $2,000 hobby . But go out and experience some things, just dip your toe in, try something.
Whatever floats your boat. You know, if you wanted to be a ballerina since you were a little girl and you never quite got there, you know, visit the ballet to begin with. Maybe that’s something that would spark something within you. We wanna get that emotion up and out. Not just that brittle, frazzled, tears are right on the edge. Like, you know how sometimes you’ll look at someone and you’re like, oh, it’s right there. And you know, I’m nasty in consult. I’ll poke the bear a little bit because I need, I need that out. Need to move through that and, and wade through it and then, you know, pick it all back up. But just start.
Kylie: Yeah. And I think too, it’s letting go of the the perfection, perfectionism of, you know, if we do this, it has to be a certain level. So I’ve recently joined a pottery course. So once a week or twice a week, I rock up to my wheel spinning pottery class and you [00:24:00] know, let’s just say there’s more clay on me than there is anywhere else.
Nic: Perfect. That’s detoxifying, right?
Kylie: Yeah. Yeah. And they’ve got this big sign on the wall saying don’t be attached to the outcome. You know, they’re sort of saying, play, stretch the clay, stretch your limits. You know, don’t worry about, you know, you need to make a bowl or need to make a jug or, you know, anything like that.
And then at the bottom they’ve got, you don’t get a six pack just because you’ve joined a gym. So, you know, just because you’re doing a pottery class, doesn’t mean you’re gonna have a crockery set at the end, that to me was sort of like, okay, I can just come and play and I really don’t care if I, you know, the way I’m headed, I’m gonna end up with a very odd collection of manky ashtrays but hey, that’s what you’re getting for Christmas, Nic.
Nic: Awesome. Do you know what I’ll pop in there is a little bit of incense. You know, those beautiful little broken up bits. Perfect. Actually don’t have one, so perfect. Yeah, perfect. Good idea. There we go. Hundred percent. So [00:25:00] I totally, you know, stretched myself on the weekend and triggered myself too. So while we’re sharing about experiences and it was just, it was a sound bath, but at the end, it was actually by Katie Underwood.
She’s quite well known and she had us all toning at the end. I don’t know if you’ve ever experienced this or ever done this before, but it was quite the triggering experience of having to be vocal in a group of women, all facing each other. And we all just had to keep going and going and going. And I’m like, I wanted to get up and walk out.
I’m not gonna lie. Like no shred of a lie. I thought I’m grabbing my mat, I’m out, I’m not doing this part. No, thank you. But again, totally. But again, in the essence of trying something new and feeling a little bit uncomfortable and seeing how it felt. It was okay. I only wanted to die for a few minutes, and then pushed through to the other side.
And I was like, actually, I feel quite elated. And, and kind of by the time we’d all sort of made some kind of noise for a period of time, I dunno whether it was pretty or scary, who knows. [00:26:00] But it was pretty wild. The fact of the matter is I didn’t die. I didn’t really, you know, I, I kind of went, oh my gosh, I can’t do this.
Like, I mean, I have enough trouble talking in a group of women, let alone, you know, getting out there and making a noise that is quite foreign. And odd, you know, primal. Well, it kinda was. And I’m like, because everybody would take breaths at different times. I’m like, it’s just me here right now.
It was incredibly uncomfortable, but by the end of it, it was all okay. So, you know, I continue to stretch, especially when things feel really hard. And I definitely, you know, highly recommend doing it just, just for the giggles and just see what happens. Yeah. And let go of the outcome. Absolutely.
Kylie: So that’s our challenge for you, ladies, is to try something that, you know, you’ve been, that’s been dancing around in the back of your head, whether it is a dancing class, pottery class, you know, [00:27:00] if you’ve never been to yoga before, if you’ve, whatever’s been dancing around in your head, just give it a go, give yourself the commitment to giving it a go.
Nic: And permission, and permission. Just go ahead and have a crack at it, you know?
Kylie: Yes. Can we just talk about that for a second?
Nic: Yeah. What’s with that.
Kylie: I know. Okay. So one thing, cause I had a, a conversation with a girlfriend about asking permission and she’s like a relationships counselor. So this is her jam and I was sort of like, oh no, I don’t ask permission or anything like that. I caught myself and I said to Sean my husband, as you know, and I said, oh, do you want to watch this? Like we had, I had the remote in my hand and I’m like, do you? Cause like TV is not really my jam, but I’ll sit and I’ll watch it for an hour before I go to bed. And I was like, oh, do you? And there was something that I, I wanted to watch Inventing Anna and he didn’t. And I was like, oh, [00:28:00] and I handed the remote over to him to choose. And then I’m just like, oh my God, I just asked permission. I just asked permission to watch. He said no, and I gave him the remote and I’m just like what?! So I’ve been really tuning into when that happens and, and I think, you know, it’s what do we, what would everyone else like for dinner?
Nic: There’s permission. And then there’s like just the general harmonizing of a home where harmonizing women tend to be the harmonizers and I’m highly empathic. So I tend to know when someone’s feeling a certain way, because I take that on. And then that sounds really odd. I know, but there’s just like this whole shift that happens when someone else comes into the room and I’m just like, Ugh or Ahh, depending on their mood. Right. So there’s that harmonizing aspect where we just kind of go, you know, what do you need? What do you need to feel right, so that I can feel right. So there is definitely [00:29:00] a difference between permission and then that harmonizing, but it it’s more like, you know, oh, I wanna do this, is this okay? Like, no, no I’m doing this. What would you like to do while I’m doing this? You know? There is a big difference in, in those two things and I think some of that comes up within the perfectionistic traits. And, and just so that we are really, really clear on what a perfectionist is and is not, it is not striving for excellence that is not perfectionistic.
Perfectionistic is getting near the goal and then changing the goal posts consistently. So you never get there and you never going to get there. It’s self-sabotage yeah. So just so that we are really, really clear. And that’s actually how we self-sabotage own happiness and joy by handing it over to others all the time.
So being a little bit wary of that too. There’s harmonizing there. And then there’s asking for permission so that it’s like, I’m handing my happiness over to you. Well, no, no, no. We’re the only ones who are actually responsible for that. So we’re gonna get off our butts and we’re actually going to ask for it and we’re going to expect it now.[00:30:00]
When we are, you know, moving into this amazing transitional phase of wise woman, we no longer have to seek that permission. It’s absolutely time to do what you need.
Kylie: Yes. I love that. And yeah, I think that’s, that’s so right. And it’s, you know, for us to step into particularly like, if we’ve been in long term relationships and we’re so ground into that’s our normal response, but I think, you know, you, you know, there’s that sort of cliche that the kids finish school, kids leave home and the couple gets divorced cause they dunno what else to do.
I guess just having an awareness of who we are as people who, if you are in a relationship who you are as a couple and what you want that to look like for the next 12 months. Two years. Five years. 20 years.
Nic: And that contributes to that feeling of lost because you, you have this idea of your [00:31:00] role and who you are and if the kids have left home or, you know, even if they’ve gone from primary school to, to high school, there’s a change in independence as you well know.
And they need you in very different ways. And what’s interesting there, is suddenly we’ve got perhaps we do have a little bit more time. I, I don’t, I kind of, I wanna say more time, but I don’t really know that that’s quite what I’m after, but that sense of loss just is opportunity to explore.
So instead of feeling lost, we have more space. We have more space. No one’s touching you as much. I don’t mean that in a weird way. But there’s, there is just this bit more of a bubble and we are like, well, hang on, we get to push ourselves out that little bit more. We’re not so much a part of everyone else under our, under our roof.
It is opportunity. So instead of feeling that loss or lost feeling, I’d like you to try to switch that mindset to opportunity, opportunity to explore. So get the pens and pencils out. Book a thing, [00:32:00] you know? Do the things that make you feel happy and nourished and you know, even if it’s coffee with a friend, it, it doesn’t have to be anything fancy.
We just need to move through this phase with, you know, some kind of purpose. Meaning that we are just getting to know who we are now. Because we are not the same people every day. Yesterday I was different than I am today and tomorrow will be different again. We’re always learning. We’re always integrating.
And the more we step into that, the, the easier that transition will be for sure.
Kylie: Yeah. No, I agree. All right, Nic, this has been amazing. Thank you. And I’m sure that everyone, you know, there’s some real nuggets of gold in there. So what I’ll do in the show notes, I’ll put a little bit more about how you can find out more about Nic and what Nic does because you’re online too, aren’t you Nic?
Nic: I certainly am.
Kylie: Yes, absolutely.
Yes. So if you’d like to sort of explore what Nic has to offer, all [00:33:00] Nic’s contact details will be in the show notes as well as a bit of a summary and reminder of that breathing exercise of how to get back in your body as well. So, so thanks, Nic.
So any last words?
Nic: Oh, that sounded ominous. You know what, there is one last thing I would really like to offer the opportunity to be gentle with yourself. So watch that inner voice a little bit. And one of my biggest tips that I share with a lot of my clients is to wear a different piece of jewelry, or even if it’s an elastic band around your wrist, I don’t really care what it is. Doesn’t have to be anything fancy, something that feels different on your body to remind you to check in with what you are saying to yourself. And if you would speak to a friend like that.
Kylie: Yes, that’s it. Yeah. The way we speak to ourselves, we wouldn’t, some of the things we would never say to a friend.
Nic: Well, you know, I was gonna say, you wouldn’t speak to your kids [00:34:00] like that, but sometimes I think I might.
Kylie: I was gonna say, yeah, three teenagers in my house.
I’m channeling you there..
Kylie: Nic, it’s great to catch up. Take care. Thanks for listening everyone.